World record-breaking Hungarian talents – two high school students from Budapest win the Oxford Schools Debating Competition twice in a row

What makes someone a good debater?

"You can't make anyone a good footballer if they don't have the talent, and it's the same with debating" – András Balázsy begins when I ask him what makes a good debater. The ability to remember, quick thinking, deductive and intuitive reasoning skills, a sense of strategy, diligence, dedication, and a good coach who creates the practicing opportunities are all essential for success. "The question is not how long it takes to become a good debater, because you need a lot of experience, you need to take part in several competitions to reach world-class. The girls have done it after 10-12 competitions, after that the progress slows down. It is also an important step for them to realize that there is room for improvement: this means, for example, that they themselves apply the techniques they have seen in other debating teams. We always write down what we did wrong, what the judges said, and we learn the good practices," explains András, who the girls call their coach.

The three of them have been working together for two years. András recalls how they met: "They both applied to be part of the Milestone Institute's debate team."

  "They had to give a speech on a certain topic, and I sat in to listen. I knew right away that they were talented and worth working with!"

As he says, Lili and Julcsi are definitely world-class talents and have more in them. "I teach them ways of speaking, and structures, correct them when they do something wrong. We also revise the debate topics, of which there could be hundreds," he explains. Every week, Lili and Julcsi attend at least one so-called coaching session (meeting), where they receive preliminary training and also have a debate. They prepare for these sessions by reading articles and watching videos. András started debating at college in the United States and later worked overseas as a lawyer. When he returned to Hungary, he did not practice it at all for a long time, and finally joined the Milestone Institute three years ago as a so-called debate coach.

Debating and arguing are not the same

Both girls are juniors at a high school in Budapest. Lili Törőcsik attends the Mihály Fazekas High School, while Julianna Balázs goes to the Frigyes Karinthy Bilingual High School. Both have also practiced debating in their own schools through the Model United Nations.

In the Model United Nations students simulate the work of diplomats and ambassadors at a conference of the UN General Assembly.

Lili also runs the school debate club. "I used to be very shy and had stage fright, but I also really liked to argue with people in my head, I just didn't dare to say aloud what I thought. Once I went to a camp where they taught public speaking, and that's where it all started," says Julcsi.

Victory for the second time in Oxford

One hundred teams from the winners of the regional semi-finals compete in Oxford. The top eight out of 100 will get into the semi-finals of the Open category. There is also an English Second Language (ESL) final for four non-native teams. In addition, there is also a Novice final, for students with less than one year of experience in competitive debating, regardless of language category. In 2021, the girls won this Novice category, which is a big deal because out of the hundreds of regional finalists, there were three champions to celebrate in the end: the Open, ESL, and Novice categories.

"And this year, we earned 8th place in the Open category in every way, tied with another team, so they tossed a coin in the middle of the room. We didn't win the draw, so we didn't make the top 8 teams, but because we are not a native English-speaking team but an ESL team, we automatically qualified for the ESL final, which we won," explains Lili.

"It was a fantastic scene! Everybody in the Oxford Union Chamber was waiting with bated breath to see who would go through out of the 100 teams, and then they said there was a perfect tie for eighth place in the Open. Both teams went out into the middle of the room, the head judge appeared with a coin, and the rest of us stood around them waiting to see what would happen. I found out later that the other eighth-placed team had been prepared by the coaches of the English National team. Unfortunately, the girls lost the coin toss, but they shook hands with the other team very professionally and congratulated them. And they still made it to the ESL final as the strongest ESL team after the top eight Open teams, and of course, they won," continues Andras.

Only the best twelve teams out of a hundred qualified for the final, one of which was made up of Lili and Julcsi. They won the competition in 2021 and 2022, but in two different categories. No team had ever done this before.

Historical traditions

The Oxford contest is based on the rules of the British parliamentary debate. Each debate involves four teams of two: two representing the government side and two representing the opposition. Teams are given 15 minutes to prepare and are not allowed to use the internet. "They want to preserve the historical tradition of the competition, which sometimes ends in a bit of chaos, as the topic for each debate is announced in the Oxford Union Chamber, with only a narrow door leading out. The topic is announced, then the countdown, and the preparation time, begins. But you can only get out in 6-7 minutes because 250-300 people start at once. Therefore, the debaters start shouting loudly to each other to prepare on the go. The girls had one big advantage: no one else spoke Hungarian, so they could really start preparing loudly," the coach explains.

Lili argues, Julcsi sums up

The girls, as they say, can work well together because they have different interests and strengths. "I start shouting passionately," says Lili, laughing, "and Julcsi, with her very structured, systemic thinking, completely dismantles the opponent" she continues, turning serious.

"Usually, Lili speaks first, I speak after. She's very good at building up her arguments, and I summarise them a bit and compare them with the other team's arguments" adds her teammate.

And who should make policy decisions on criminal law: politicians or experts in the field? This is what the girls had to debate in the final - all in English, the language of the international competition. Many would have difficulty debating such things even in Hungarian, but they do it perfectly well in English, and perhaps even better.

"They know how to debate mainly in English, and I'm not sure it would be so easy for them in Hungarian. In Hungarian, you can sometimes get lost in a long sentence, and only at the very end can you piece together what the sentence means. In a second language, on the other hand, you are not emotionally attached to what you are saying," says András. "English also has a simpler vocabulary. In any second language, the weight of words is smaller, for example, it's less stressful for me to express myself in English in front of a crowd than in Hungarian," says Lili. According to Julcsi, they just don't have the experience of debating in Hungarian. This year's win is a confirmation for them: last year's was very unexpected, but the second time around they thought they might have a chance. "It's good feedback that we didn't just win last year by some miracle," she emphasizes.

Not comparable to political debates

Julcsi, the older of the two, is most interested in economics and foreign policy. She would like to continue her studies in economics. Lili likes to have a concrete social problem to discuss how to solve. "There are also debates where you don't talk about a topic in general, but from someone's point of view: for example, to put forward the right course of action from the point of view of the American or the American Republican Party. I think it makes a topic much more interesting," she adds. She is not yet sure what she would like to do in the future, but economics, political science, and philosophy could be considered.

They agree that the competition debate is very different from what we see in politics.

"Politicians want to use emotions to move the masses. They skip logical steps but we are not allowed to do so. They don't explain things because they don't need to in a given situation, so the two are not comparable," says Lili. As role models, they look to their peer debating teams, whose strategy and style they try to emulate. "The Chinese and the Singapore teams, but the Dutch and the English are also very good," they say. The girls are now preparing for the World Championships in August, which will be held in the Netherlands on paper but online in reality due to the pandemic. It's a different format to the British parliamentary debate, with teams of five. The three other members of the team are Adam Vas, Szabolcs Veress and Péter Jagos. Lili and Julcsi were part of the national team last year, and this year's team will again be prepared by András Balázsy. "We train for this and we are proud to represent Hungary," they say. "I sincerely hope we will be successful," adds András.